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Criticism of Idea

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Joined: 9 May 2007
Criticism of Idea

I can guarantee that all of you have created/played more RPGs than myself

I wanted to know if you had any comments or suggestions on an idea that I'd had so that I knew what issues I mgith have to address before I began.

I've been thinking about making an RPG as a work of art, and that the playing of the game would in some way be an artistic practice rather than purely a recreational one.

All I know so far is the setting, which is London, the syle, which is my own handdrawn pixels and a loose plot

What I want to know is if it possible to build an RPG which doesn't fall into the linear fight monsters, take their gold, get slightly better magic and items etc etc etc format using RPG makers.

Can I place the emphasis more on developing relationships between characters, learning skills from encountering others and a combat system in which the outcome isn't either victory or defeat.

Are these things possible? Obviously I want to start at the bottom and build my way up but It would be nice to visualise and end point

any comments appreciated

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NobleUltra TownieMega TownieSuper TownieGreat TownieTownie
Joined: 12 Jul 2004

Hi Wormulus, and welcome to the boards!

I do know what you mean, and I suppose really it's the same thing as wanting to be a genre novelist, sticking to tried and tested material, or aspiring to something greater, to be assessed on its own merits.

I think really, graphic limitations aside, the sky's your limit. Conventional RPGs do tend to follow the 'hero gets stronger and levels up and learns more magic power and fights bosses', but there's no written law saying you have to do the same. It's just a case of playing with what tools you have, and thinking of ways to get around the maker to achieve the desired effect. With RPG Maker XP this is even easier I suppose: if you get the hang of the Ruby coding language you can pretty much do what you like and construct all systems in your game from the ground up! Not that I'd do that myself because I'm utterly useless at anything involving logic, but the possibilities are open.

I think it's pretty much a case of deciding on specifics, and working out how to achieve them. It's entirely possible to have battles in which no one wins, but it would need an outcome of some sort just so you could return to the main game. I suppose characterisation is of the utmost importance anyway, be it fantasy or not.

To try and stop myself from wittering on I'll try and reach some sort of conclusion. Definitely go for a more idiosyncratic approach to gamemaking. Certainly the games that tend to get noticed are the ones that refuse to be conventional, and so in merely that respect I'm sure your project would create interest. You could make a meta-RPG if you liked XD. I think that's one of the great things about the RPG Maker program: the fact that the actual mechanics aren't stupidly complicated, yet if you put your mid to it you can achieve so much with it, working around what you have or indeed just making new stuff.

One important thing to remember though is that it does have to keep the player entertained. Obviously I mean entertained loosely, as to mean keeping them...well...playing (can't say Thomas Hardy novels 'entertained' me in the traditional sense but I love them nonetheless) but I suppose one of the things about a game that is crucial to keep in your mind is that it is an interactive media. It can't be a heap of long cutscenes where you press enter every two seconds to further the dialogue, otherwise it would get horribly tedious to trudge through. Good luck with whatever you come up with, anyway?

Have you played 'Ico' for the PS2? This is the only game that I've played that I would say is a piece of art. And I'm not just saying that because I love the game, I mean that it is very...conscious of itself as something more than a convetional smackathon, as it were.

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Thank you very much, secretly this is what I was hoping but I didn't want to get ahead of myself.

I was planning on 'hijacking' the makers to meet my ends I'm just glad that its possible (if difficult)

As for keeping the project as a game - its certianly something I need to think about, if for instance it was to be played in a gallery setting, the idea would be to have lots of people play on it for a short time before moving on to do something else - If I do go with this, I'll need a framework where the protragonist or party cannot reach a 'game over' or a lock out, whilst there still being an aim

I shall think on this some more, whilst I try and work how to make tilesets - any suggestions for tutorials on that more practical aspect of game making Wink

Wormulus

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Super TownieGreat TownieTownie
Joined: 11 Apr 2007

Before you start on the tutorials read the help file that came with your maker, that will explain alot for the first timer, then after you get the basics start looking for some tutorials. I was wondering what RPG maker you was using 2000, 2003, or XP? After you tell us what you use it would be alot easier for any of use to help or suggest tutorials for you to use.

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I am using RPG Maker XP - Is this the best option for a beginner

I am already making strides - It seems quite simple to customise and build a simple RPG, however, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with my sprites - I can't get the squares to align with my own tiles

Still, early days

Wormulus

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Ultra TownieMega TownieSuper TownieGreat TownieTownie
Joined: 12 Jul 2004

To answer your original question, yes these things are possible & I positively encourage them.

I've personally disliked RPGs for a few years now. Commerical RPGs rarely try and reinvent themselves and are stuck in a rut. Concepts such as levelling up still baffle me; they aren't realistic, they're just an institution. Admittedly in a computer game set in a fantasy world, why should it be realistic? Partially, I suppose, because it just creates a bit of a grind fest. There's no reason RPGs can't occasionally try an alternative.

The particular bone I have with RPGs is their characters. Like the later series of Friends, they're always shallow caricatures of real people. There's no reason why they should be that way, other than the best script writers probably bypass games and go straight for movies.

The more mainstays of RPGs you ignore the better. Good luck with it.

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Great TownieTownie
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Wormulus @ May 9 2007, 08:14 AM wrote:

I can guarantee that all of you have created/played more RPGs than myself

I wanted to know if you had any comments or suggestions on an idea that I'd had so that I knew what issues I mgith have to address before I began.

I've been thinking about making an RPG as a work of art, and that the playing of the game would in some way be an artistic practice rather than purely a recreational one.

All I know so far is the setting, which is London, the syle, which is my own handdrawn pixels and a loose plot

What I want to know is if it possible to build an RPG which doesn't fall into the linear fight monsters, take their gold, get slightly better magic and items etc etc etc format using RPG makers.

Can I place the emphasis more on developing relationships between characters, learning skills from encountering others and a combat system in which the outcome isn't either victory or defeat.

Are these things possible? Obviously I want to start at the bottom and build my way up but It would be nice to visualise and end point

any comments appreciated

hola, although new here myself, i have risen in rank rather quickly. i love rpgs, and the first one i ever beat was final fantasy 6/3 on the SNES (the one with terra)

about your idea...i havent seen it done, nor know how to do it...i think it would be interesting...o wait...try to make it where you have LOTS AND LOTS of show choices....that would help...you just need to plan it all out...as for the combat system...look for some code somewhere like on phanxgames.com...

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Great TownieTownie
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I love your concept and my advice for rpgxp make a test project and if you cannot figure out what a function does then play with it in your test till you figure it out Smile

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Thanks for the advice - I'm getting quite into RPGMaker XP, it seems remarkbly simple to pick up, although it looks very tricky to master

I'm still unsure as to how to make my own tilesets though, as I know what I'd like my character animations to look like and would like to do that quite soon, as once I've finished them I have them forever.

I can't figure out how to match the tiles with the 'O''s and 'X''s in them with my tiles that I've drawn as a PNG file - Is there a knack to it or is it a case of pixel pushing until them overlap each other?

Wormulus

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Ultra TownieMega TownieSuper TownieGreat TownieTownie
Joined: 12 Sep 2006

Well, tiles on RMXP are 32x32 pixels, so you should draw them accordingly. The height can be as many tiles as you want, but the width has to be 8 tiles wide (8x32 pixels = 256). You should also keep one single color as transparent, and not use it anywhere else but for transparency... and, wasn't... there some sort of... shadow effect with another color? I should at least illegally download RMXP so I can be more help. Smile

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RoyalÜber TownieUltra TownieMega TownieSuper TownieGreat TownieTownie
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Yes, you can use a specific colour for 50% transparency. But note that RMXP supports full alpha-blending, meaning that you can save PNG files from Photoshop with a transparent background, and the transparency will show up in RMXP. Full alpha-blending means that you can make anything 20% transparent, 67% transparent, a full transparency gradient, and if you set transparencies in Photoshop isntead of through the Resource Manager in RMXP, the transparent areas do not need to be a differenc colour than everything else (especially since the transparency doesn't have colour...)

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Super TownieGreat TownieTownie
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Furdabip, do not illegally download RPG XP. I'm sure you were just joking about htat but if you wasn't don't. You should give the creators there dues.

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shadowfox @ May 14 2007, 04:53 PM wrote:

Furdabip, do not illegally download RPG XP. I'm sure you were just joking about htat but if you wasn't don't. You should give the creators there dues.

Yes I was joking. Sticking Out Tongue

When they offer a PayPal method of paying, I will buy it. Until then, I cannot, as I do not have a credit card. The whole reason I am here is for RM2K support, which is now "outdated" and only idiots use it apparently. Undecided

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Great TownieTownie
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Furdabip @ May 14 2007, 01:42 PM wrote:
shadowfox @ May 14 2007, 04:53 PM wrote:

Furdabip, do not illegally download RPG XP. I'm sure you were just joking about htat but if you wasn't don't. You should give the creators there dues.

Yes I was joking. Sticking Out Tongue

When they offer a PayPal method of paying, I will buy it. Until then, I cannot, as I do not have a credit card. The whole reason I am here is for RM2K support, which is now "outdated" and only idiots use it apparently. Undecided

not really...i still use my 95 quiet a lot...

Galanovagames.com

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I don't consider RMXP outdated. I simply consider it more of an amateur tool that people should start with, and I consider RMXP a more refined tool to build more complicated, extensive projects with.

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Last_Man_Standing @ May 15 2007, 06:24 PM wrote:

I don't consider RMXP outdated. I simply consider it more of an amateur tool that people should start with, and I consider RMXP a more refined tool to build more complicated, extensive projects with.

Change the first XP to 2K.

Galanovagames.com

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Furdabip @ May 14 2007, 09:42 AM wrote:
shadowfox @ May 14 2007, 04:53 PM wrote:

Furdabip, do not illegally download RPG XP. I'm sure you were just joking about htat but if you wasn't don't. You should give the creators there dues.

Yes I was joking. Sticking Out Tongue

When they offer a PayPal method of paying, I will buy it. Until then, I cannot, as I do not have a credit card. The whole reason I am here is for RM2K support, which is now "outdated" and only idiots use it apparently. Undecided

I am quite good with RM2K so what ever help you need I will be happy to oblige I havent used it in so long though so it might take a day for me to return with my assisstance. I can't ever find 95 to download and never got to use it, I mostly would like it incase there is someone who starts using it and needs help but other than that I don't need it so Sticking Out Tongue.

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I meant... I myself am good with it, so am here to answer RM2K support questions... Sticking Out Tongue

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Super TownieGreat TownieTownie
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Furdabip @ May 16 2007, 12:31 PM wrote:

I meant... I myself am good with it, so am here to answer RM2K support questions... Sticking Out Tongue

Oh ok sorry I didn't understand what you was saying before but anyways.

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Last_Man_Standing @ May 14 2007, 07:39 PM wrote:

Yes, you can use a specific colour for 50% transparency. But note that RMXP supports full alpha-blending, meaning that you can save PNG files from Photoshop with a transparent background, and the transparency will show up in RMXP. Full alpha-blending means that you can make anything 20% transparent, 67% transparent, a full transparency gradient, and if you set transparencies in Photoshop isntead of through the Resource Manager in RMXP, the transparent areas do not need to be a differenc colour than everything else (especially since the transparency doesn't have colour...)

Cheers - I think I'm getting the hang of it now

I've been fiddling with everything and it all seems quite simple so far.

Before I really get involved, are there generally scripts around to change the battle style in RPGXP to a side view?

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Ultra TownieMega TownieSuper TownieGreat TownieTownie
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Wormulus, just dropped by to wish you good luck. Today's RPGs really need some new hum... How should I put it... Content?

Some critics and artists in general say that too many things have been created for someone to be innovative... I, however, think that there is still too much room for original ideas... Enough of kill/level up RPGs. We want some plot.

You should go for it, rpg maker is powerful and simple. Once again, good luck Wink

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